Me: First things first. Tell me more about yourself and your background.
Jonathan:
I’m Jonathan Jennings. I’ve been a professional software engineer for the past 8 years, I began my career as a Jr. UI engineer at a mobile game studio and over the years my role has expanded. I’ve done prototyping, gameplay programming , been the lead UI engineer, networking, Artificial Intelligence programming, design, testing, and really whatever the team has needed from me though now I focus more on the AR/VR/XR space.
How’d I get started though? I went to college actually. A highschool recruiter came to my International Relations class and showed us this simple Simpsons game prototype where Homer would bounce around the screen collecting Donuts. I never knew you could actually make games so I was kind of sold on the college (Devry university) right then and there. I ate, slept and breathed videogames and working in the industry was a dream come true.
I did make games full-time but now I make them as side projects, the enterprise VR money is good but I have to stretch my creative muscles with my own projects in my free time.
Before I made games I was a crossing guard for elementary and Jr. high schools, I think I did high school once. so it was a big leap into the tech world.
Me: That’s really interesting. Most of the game devs I know went to school for computer science. I think you’re one of the first people I’ve met who actually went to school for game development. What was that experience like? Would you say your educational experience was valuable there?
Jonathan: OOF, honestly I’m conflicted when it comes to talking about going to college for gamedev because for some people it is a total waste of money, for me I don’t think I’d be as successful now if it weren’t for the foundation and knowledge it gave me back then.
But ultimately and I stress this whenever I do a talk or anything, self-learning is everything. My portfolio has gotten me more interviews, conversations, recruiter approaches, and even I’d say respect than my degree ever did. The greatest thing college ever did was introduce me to what a portfolio was and help me in the act of building mine.
Me: That makes sense to me, a lot of similar programs are like that. It’s sort of the same story with the Art Institute of California – the degree itself isn’t worth much but it’s the foundational skills you get that you build a portfolio with that drive you along. Sort of like that?
Jonathan: Absolutely like that and the hard thing is that I feel like you have to know yourself to know if college is worth your time, money, and energy .
I would say about 2 years worth of my curriculum and knowledge (of a 3.5 year program) is public knowledge people can research on youtube.
Back in 2011 that kind of self-taught dev wasn’t as popular but you can learn how to make games on your own so much now and I think the key question anyone should ask themselves is how disciplined are they? Can you actually hunker down with Youtube for an hour a day and practice creating assets or writing code?
Can you actually invest time into yourself and your own learning OR are you like me and having someone guide you down the path and then you can go full steam and earn everything you want to or need to in that realm?
I remember when we learned how to write AI one of the first things I wanted to do was make a video game boss like the ones I played against in Sonic 2 and the Mario Bros. games. A boss where you hit it 3 times during its vulnerable moment, it flashes, and then you win ! .
Our class introduced us to what AI and state machines were but I had to spend a weekend or two playing with that idea myself in order to really understand and know what we went over in class. That type of stuff is what made my portfolio shine and came in handy when I did get a real game job.
Some people (I think they are wizards) can see something and reproduce it right away, those are the self-taught wizards. I know a few but i’m not that guy
Me: I see. So it’s largely based on how you learn best. I went to General Assembly which has a similar program: a lot of the information is stuff you can find online, but you get guidance from experienced mentors and learn in a structured setting. I’m not like the kind of wizards you’re describing either. I wish I was lol.
Jonathan: Lol right?
Me: Tell me about the games you’re working on now. You mentioned that these days you make games part-time and work in the AR/VR space? I’d like to hear more about your projects.
Jonathan: Yeah well my baby is called Galactic Bar Figh! It’s a VR sci-fi game I’m making for the Oculus Quest. I’ve just begun making a website for it but it’s been a blast to make and also frustrating like all game dev is a little bit.
https://wierdkidstudios.wixsite.com/wierdkidstudios
https://www.behance.net/gallery/87621757/Galactic-Bar-Fight
It’s a VR shooting gallery kind of arcadey experience .
I also love to do rapid prototypes, and before the Magic Leap started having trouble it was my favorite Mixed Reality headset to work with. I started prototyping a small Mixed Reality game for my niece about a year ago called Snack Attack which allowed me to make her living room, or my parking area into a game environment
https://www.behance.net/gallery/81327207/Snack-Attack
Me: You had me at the words Galactic Bar Fight
Jonathan: LOL happy you dig it, yeah I’ve put a lot of work into it, I’m solo-deving it (not by choice) but It’s become a really cathartic and fun canvas to put myself and my love of games to work in the VR space.
The first time I had a shootout with the AI enemies I wrote was so surreal.
Like understanding that they are calculating their positioning and attacks based on my position in their world was just wild.
My very first Magic Leap prototype I wanted to make my living room into virtual armory , and I’d started doing that with a really quick prototype I made called Blades https://www.behance.net/gallery/78425593/Blades-Mixed-Reality-%28-Working-Title%29
I just love that merging between the real and virtual world that VR , AR, and Mixed reality offer
I think it’s as literally as “being inside a video game” as we may ever get.
Me: How did you get into the VR/AR space? Was it just so you could bond with your niece with games like Snack Attack?
Jonathan: How did I get into the AR/ VR space though? Honestly pure luck. I was deep into the mobile games development scene when the Oculus Rift and the HTC Vive were released. The more senior guys on my team put money down for the Vive and brought it in to show us and we were all blown away by the potential. It was so much better than a Google cardboard .
Mobile startups can be kind of frustrating to work in because you always join them having million dollar dreams and every single one I’ve worked in has either disbanded the team or liquidated. It just so happened when I saw the writing on the wall for one of my mobile game studios one of my friends asked me if I wanted to work on a VR thing with him I figured sure because I know it was getting more popular. The title in question was Ghostbusters VR: Now hiring for the Google Cardboard (I got to work on the proton gun!) and after that even just having one VR game on my resume made me a hot commodity. I interviewed at my current full time gig Relaycars and got hired.
Snack Attack more came from the fact there are not many VR/AR games targeted towards younger kids (and partly with good reason since we don’t know how the headsets affect eye development) but I wanted to be able to share this exciting new tech with her in a game that wasn’t just about killing/fighting. I showed it to her last 4th of July and she was so excited about it.
Me: Yeah, I see this happen a lot. People go the startup track/entrepreneurship route with dollar signs in their eyes only to end up broke and struggling af.
That’s awesome that you were able to find your niche though, and what perfect timing too!
Let’s pivot to a related question
What were some of the games you grew up with? How do they influence your work now?
What inspires you creatively? Where do your ideas come from?
Jonathan: Super Mario and Sonic are my childhood heroes, Sonic 2 and Super Mario Bros. 3 specifically. Like my taste in games has evolved dramatically since then. I am a big Quantic Dream fan, I WAS a big Bioware fan, so I love big elaborate narratives and world building but I think those first games had a simplicity and a tightness that I really respect and appreciate. I really want people to feel great and in control when they play something I make, with Galactic Bar Fight that is kind of a key consideration to me at all times, “how does this feel ” .
As far as my ideas they come from all sorts of places man I am a programmer/game designer with an artist’s heart so music and pretty art send my imagination into overdrive. Like I’ll sit there and see a cute character in an ad and my mind will overflow with ideas of how to make that character fun and what kind of world they’d exist in and what kind of enemies they’d fight .
I’ve always had an overactive imagination but especially when it comes to music or art I think mood and atmosphere are so critical to a solid game experience and giving the game a specific type of energy and vibe. Also sometimes I’ll play a game and I’ll fall in love with a single mechanic and try to prototype a game around that mechanic, to be honest though those ideas don’t get very far.
Me: So, you try to empathize with the player experience when you design games.
“What does the person feel when they see this character? What are they experiencing when they control it?”
When you cite Quantic Dream as an influence of yours, I take that to mean that you like well-crafted narrative experiences in games.
Are those statements accurate?
Jonathan: Absolutely the player is the core of the game and I feel like more recently we have this weird culture that almost seems annoyed that the player is getting in the way of their grand game vision but to me the player is the star of the show. There is no game without the player. I love well-crafted narrative experiences for sure but I enjoy those more as a fan. I think game writing is a really valuable skill that takes time to develop and I don’t have yet.
So yes those statements are correct
Me: What’s your take on the protests, and everything else going on around the country right now?
Jonathan: Boy I’m tired. I had just started in the industry around the time of the death of Trayvon Martin and I was so infuriated that people could justify this creep following a black man late at night and then killing him.
And it just kept happening to Eric Gardner, Philando Castille, Ahmaud Arbery, and George Floyd. The police or somebody not black would take justice into their own hands and murder a black person because…well because they never suffered consequences for doing it. My mom and sister would always get nervous when another murder happened, they’d ask me to leave my visits for them early so that i wasn’t out too late because God knows the police didn’t need much more of a reason then I was a black man traveling alone at night to justify my life ending .
And so let me be quite clear I think a protest is the kindest thing america could expect from Black america.
I was not averse to the burning of the police precinct or the target because I’ve seen my community cry, and plead, and beg, and pray, and hope, and dream, and make speeches, and march and America refuses to listen.
So I am happy the protests happened to move that energy in a more positive direction but I can’t explain the anger I had and the anger I keep having and the idea that if we don’t fix this today my two year old nephew who is both black and native american is doomed to be abused by this society. So I was very much in the “burn it all down” mindset.
We are not lesser than, we do not deserve to die for our skin, we do not deserve to be harmed, and America WILL listen to us. Or else.
I hate to sound so aggressive but I have no more patience for the abuse of black people.
America will change or else…
Me: No apologies are necessary. This is your space to talk.
I empathize with your anger. I think it’s bullshit.
Thank you for sharing all of that.
What do you think will come of the protests, if anything?
You may have heard that the Minneapolis City Council voted to defund the police and replace it with a community-based approach to law enforcement. Other major American cities like Seattle are considering similar measures.
Does this mark the beginning of real change in the lives of Black Americans?
I realize that probably sounds like a dumb question as long as Trump remains President.
Jonathan: I think the greatest thing to come from the protests is the police ruining whatever public good will they thought they had. I’m absolutely amazed that during police brutality protests I have seen pictures of people blinded by rubber bullets, a girl who choked to death due to complications of tear gas, a 75 year old man shoved and walked past as he bled from his ears by law enforcement, a photo of a military man protesting shot in the head with a rubber bullet hands raised and sent to the hospital. A 9 year old girl maced by a police man. The kicker is though, all of these people aren’t black! The police have declared war on the American citizens and ruined their reputation in the process with Trump’s blessing.
I think we can see the change now everyday. I see new charges levied against police for their abuses on Americans, everyday they seem to become less comfortable with how THEY have made themselves look to the public.
The plight of black Americans and general law enforcement abuse is on display like never before in this country and a better law enforcement is better for ALL Americans, not just black people. I’m all for defunding the police and putting those resources into community enrichment. Give us homes and opportunities to make our communities better so that crime isn’t considered “the way out.”
I know countless former gang -bangers who will be the first to tell you Crime wasn’t a voluntary choice, it was how they survived. Let’s make our communities richer so that we see beyond just what helps us make it possible to survive another day.
I also think that people protect their home and respect their neighbors the best, let’s protect ourselves and police ourselves. I do think that in conjunction with a much smaller law enforcement will lead to a more positive community.
Me: What resistance have you yourself encountered in your journey as a game developer that you perceive as being based on your skin color alone?
Jonathan: When I first began my career LinkedIn wasn’t really popular so companies just saw a name and a resumé when they looked me up . I like to call myself a Black Unicorn because the response I get when this black young man walked into offices was akin to them seeing a black unicorn walking down their hallways. People were either uncomfortably excited that black programmers do exist or I felt like I walked in there and they thought I was some sort of con-artist. I was just a black nerd who loved videogames .
One of my first interviews I remember showing up resumé in hand and the secretary asking me if I was there to deliver a package or something…. which was cute… no I was there for the Jr. software engineer position thank you very much .
I remember shortly after Trayvon Martin’s murder I was in downtown Santa Monica grabbing dinner after work with my hoodie up and ths group of white teens randomly shouts out “GEORGE ZIMMERMAN!” It took me a while to figure out why they said that because I didn’t know who killed Trayvon but it dawned on me later that night .
There’s the infamous “nametag” game which any black tech person can tell you is uncomfortable, when someone OBVIOUSLY wants to know why you belong in the same room as them and they rudely look at your name tag before every saying hello and introducing themselves and the follow up questions are also infuriating. I drop some programmer/tech lingo like ” instances,” “platforms,” ” Cloud Based-services”and they straighten up though.
The most egregious experience I had though was about a year and a half ago or 2 years ago.
A fresh-faced college kid from a VERY well known and popular California college with a renowned game development program started at our company. He was kind of a snarky jerk, he always had this attitude of “I belong here and suffer you peons,” mind you this was his very first job.
He’d made really questionable comments that over time became less and less questionable .
I joked about making people around me worse and he should aspire to be like him and used the phrasing “monkey see monkey do ” within earshot of my manager who warned him… no harm no foul right?
Next I went to see A Quiet Place and Raved about how incredible it was, audio is such a big part of that film, his response ” A theater full of black people being quiet? Hmph”.
He’d use the term “lynching” as a replacement fo being derided. Normal people say ” why don’t you sue me” he’d say ” Just lynch me already!”
The coup de grace though was one day we were talking and he called me a ” Fucking Diversity Hire” which boiled my blood.
He wasn’t there all those hours I busted ass in the computer lab during college, he wasn’t there for all those weeks and months I crunched to prove myself at my first job and be a dedicated member of the team, he wasn’t there when I had to psyche myself up and prove as the ONLY black member on my teams I knew just as much as everyone else.
The idea that this privileged trash thought he belonged in the building 6 months into his career more than my 7+ years in the industry just because of my skin color infuriated me.
Thankfully the company removed him because he was a prick to everyone. That was the most humiliated and disrespected I’ve ever felt as a black man in the industry and I navigate all sorts of microaggressions so that’s saying something.
Me: I’m sensing a theme here.
It seems as though being the only Black person on your team in a white-dominated field, the people around you have put the burden on you to prove yourself in some way even when you were the most qualified and experienced person in the room.
Is that fair to say?
Jonathan: Absolutely
Me: You know what the screwed up thing is though?
People like this are everywhere, even when they aren’t as vocal about it. They might deny they’re racist when really they just can’t articulate their biases because they’re so deeply internalized.
I think something a lot of white people don’t understand is that more often than not, racism isn’t an active choice but a set of pre-programmed behaviors that need to be unlearned.
It’s not always the privileged trash kid. It’s gerrymandering. Alt-right dog whistles on Twitter. It’s the city council segregating districts so that black/hispanic/native american students go to the shitty schools.
It goes deep.
Anyway, thank you for sharing those stories. That can’t have been easy.
Whenever I go to game dev meetups, I tend to see a lot of this:
.
Is this something you can relate to?
The same holds true in my experience for coworking spaces for tech workers and startups.
Jonathan: LOL!
So for what it’s worth I’ve actually been really fortunate to work on diverse teams however absolutely. A friend of mine used to work for Facebook and he told me they specifically hired ushers and those event people of color just to make the event less….bright lol so to speak. Lots of white faces but not so many faces of color who were professionals .
I see more diversity now but I remember a time when I HAD to say hi to the 1 other black person in the room if I didn’t know them and even when I did I’d greet them because there’s so few of us.
I remember going to the AI SIG round table at GDC and I was the 1 black face in a room of white people , maybe a few asians and an indian man or two. And I could “feel” that “you’re new” energy
Me: For every step-forward we get a far-right backlash. We saw this in 2014 when GamerGate happened, and later in 2016 when they morphed into the alt-right.
How do we stop going two steps back every time we take a step forward?
What can we do to make gamedev and tech spaces more inclusive? Not just for People of Color, but Hispanic people, Native American, Indian, South East Asian etc.?
Jonathan: People would call me racist for saying it but I’d love a POC only networking event.
Most of us are one colored face on a mostly white team in a mostly white organization. I have been to a few predominantly POC networking events and the entire atmosphere is different. I make an effort to attend the Blacks in Gaming parties whenever I am at GDC because it feels like taking a deep breath before diving right back into the predominantly white industry. It’s nice to forget for a few hours how “alone” you really feel as you deal with black or POC issues in your company which let’s be honest isn’t gonna recognize them much after these protests (I hope i’m wrong but people have to show me I’m wrong first) .
So yes I’d welcome a party that is focused on People of Color networking only. again some will call it racist and I don’t care about those people as they have their all white dinners with their all white friends and think nothing of it. I don’t even have enough People of Color in my network to entertain the idea of an all-POC event in a public space.
Sometimes I think just that little reassuring of support from others like you is so nice .
And what’s even more frustrating is that people don’t realize how tough it is to be a person of color who is successful in your family who can’t relate to your experience AT ALL.
We get hit on all sides, Me explaining the meetings I’m into my mom is met with polite mild interests because it makes me sound important but she has no clue what i’m talking about
many of my close friends also SOME EVEN IN THE INDUSTRY, they have no frame of reference to my experience even if they understand general struggles in the industry (more as hobbyists or contractors I should say)
It truly is a lonely endeavor to be considered a bastion of hope in your community and trying to “earn” your place in a mostly white corporate culture, it’s a constant pressure.
Anyone wishing to support the movement can buy the Itch.Io Black Lives Matter Support Bundle.
You are a great writer!